Vergleich Commissionen Forex Broker und CME Devisen

@ Roland

'Was ausser dem Ask/Bid Spread muss/soll ich bei einem FX Broker beachten?'

Wie wäre es mit der Sicherheit dass dieser Laden den nächsten Tag erlebt? Wenn man liest wer alles FOREX anbietet habe ich da so meine Zweifel.

'Die Swiss Finance Group z.B. wollte über die Einlage hinaus per Bankgarantie über 100'000 $ Zugriff auf mein Konto.'

Quatsch, HÄTTE ich auch gerne (Zugriff auf dein Konto) - viele Broker nehmen MARGIN umgerechnet im Verhältnis zu den Sätzen für IMM-Devisen. Das macht Sinn. Daytrade also auch 50 %.

'Wo ist der Unterschied der vielen FX Broker?'

Es ist ein non-regulated market = unterliegt KEINER Aufsicht. Dennoch wohl einer der grössten und professionellsten Märkte der Welt.

Vor einigen Ausgaben gabs eine Menge brauchbare (und unbrauchbare) Infos im TRADERS, u.a. Werbung von vielen Anbierten und eine Auflistung. Manche eröffnen Konten ab $ 1.000 (Schwachsinn), andere machen Werbung mit leverage 1:400 (Harakiri). Bei solchen Läden würde ich freiwillig keine Konto aufmachen.

'Haben ich mich verrechnet oder zahle ich wirklich das 10 fache an versteckter Kommision wenn ich FX handle, als wenn ich die IMM's nehme?'

IMM handelst Du auch auf Geld und Briefkurse, nichts anderes machst Du bei FOREX - die meisten machen Werbung mit no-comisssion, verdienen aber am Spread. Interbank ist 1-2 pips, wenn die Dir 3-5 als Preis stellen, kostet das natürlich verdeckt. Ist eine Rechenaufgabe je nach Marktlage, aber die geringe Liquidität bei IMM könnte Dich noch mehr kosten. Bei EUR/USD ist max 3 pip spread akzeptabel. Weitere Vorteile von FOREX wie 24 Stunden handel etc. überwiegen sicherlich IMM. Wenn Du dann bei FOREX eine LIMIT Order gibts - handelst Du ohne spread und ohne comission - was will das Herz noch mehr ? Wenn Dein Broker keine Limitorder nimmt, dann nimm einen richtigen Broker. :-)

IB will wohl dahin den Originalpreis aus dem Markt weiterzugeben und dann eine geringe comission zu nehmen - das KÖNNTE mal interessant werden, wenn das dort richtig läuft.

Würde zu namhaften Anbietern gehen: REFCO & PRU BACHE.

In anderen Foren werden ganz andere Namen gehandelt, ich frage mich allerdings ob dort die Kunden überhaupt wissen wovon sie reden.

Bei FOREX handelst Du SPOT, d.h. eigentlich Lieferung/Abnahme in 2 Tagen, da Du das natürlich, wie bei Schweinebäuchen und O-saft, nicht willst wird dort täglich "gerollt". Wäre sicher ein interessanter Punkt, wie der Broker sowas abwickelt. In der Praxis wird dort die Zinsdifferenz der beiden Währungen für den 1 Tag verrechnet. Also je nach long oder short bekommst Du was oder zahlst eine Kleinigkeit, evtl. nehmen manche noch fees oder so. In einem IB-Forum konnte ein IB-Angestellter dies nicht beantworten, da ihm diese Vorgangsweise noch nicht mal bekannt war - lässt tief blicken.

Hier ein paar Links:

http://www.refcofx.com/charts.html

http://www.fxstreet.com/nou/fxtrek/senseframescharts.asp

http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/plot.html

Hope this helps

gruss hans

Hallo,

ich habe bei IB lediglich ein paar mal das Konto von Euro in Dollar gedreht und umgekehrt. Möchte mich daher bei der Sache mal als Baby bezeichnen.

IB hat neuerdings auf ihrer Plattform IDEALPRO beim Dollar/Euro nur noch 3 Pips Spanne. Die Gebühren sind um die drei Dollar je Transaktion.

Wie ist das zu bewerten? Ist das günstig? Kann hier von FOREX-Handel sprechen?

Grüße
Albert

@ Marzell

'IB hat neuerdings auf ihrer Plattform IDEALPRO beim Dollar/Euro nur noch 3 Pips Spanne. Die Gebühren sind um die drei Dollar je Transaktion.

Wie ist das zu bewerten? Ist das günstig? Kann hier von FOREX-Handel sprechen? '

3 pips ist ok - geht wohl günstiger, 3 $: who cares ? Ist wohl deren Einstieg eine Scheibe vom neuesten "hottest games in town" zu bekommen. Mal abwarten.

gruss hans

Also zu FX bin ich ein wenig weiter und poste das Ergebnis aus einer Mail eines Kollegen.

---

Hallo Roland,

Schoen, mal wieder von Dir zu hoeren. Soso, die US Bonds und die IMMs… jaja, das sind auch meine Lieblingsmaerkte.

Bezueglich Forex-Broker:

Es gibt ein paar wichtige Dinge ueber Forex Broker, die Du wissen solltest:

Im November vergangenen Jahres haben die US Behoerden angefangen, Forex Broker zu regulieren. Diejenigen Broker, die den Forderungen nicht nachkommen konnten, sind nach London gezogen, wo es keine Regulierungen gibt. Also Finger weg von UK-based Forex Brokern!

Wie Du schon sagtest, ist das A&O der Spread, da dies ja Deine Kommissionen sind.

Aber Achtung: Bei Brokern, die Dir Fills garantieren, tradest Du gegen den Broker. Alles unter 3 Pips ist unserioes, da der Broker schon 2 pips im Interbank Handel zahlen muss. Naja, und von irgendwas muss er ja auch leben.
Bei Mini-Kontrakten kannst Du 100% sicher sein, dass Du gegen den Broker tradest.

Fuer professionellen Handeln solltest Du einen Broker haben, der Dich direct mit den Banken traden laesst. Das heisst aber leider auch meistens “no guaranteed fills”

Du must sicher stellen, dass der Spread 24h am Tag garantiert ist. Manche Broker garantieren einen Spread nur fuer gewisse Handelszeiten.

Schau Dir auch die Spreads fuer andere Maerkte an. Ein Broker, der 3 pips in EUR/USD und 4 pips in USD/GBP bietet, ist natuerlich besser, als einer, der 3 pips EUR/USD und 5 pips USD/GBP bietet. Viele Broker “finanzieren” sich guenstige Spreads in den “main currencies” mit teuren Spreads in den anderen currencies.

Ueber “segenerated accounts” weiss ich nicht viel. Am besten mit einem Sales-Rep bei den Brokern sprechen.

Refco hat letztens seinen Spread runtergesetzt, und endlich kann man auch hier mit 3 pips traden.

Ich persoenlich nutze GFTForex, und das ist auch der Broker, den wir im Moment empfehlen koennen. Du hast Charting und Trading in EINE Plattform integriert, die Spreads sind gut, und die Handelsplattform das beste, was ich bisher gesehen habe.

Hier ein Link zu deren Website:

http://www.gftforex.com/index.asp?rpid=74

Hier kannst Du einen Demo Account eroeffnen:

http://live.gftforex.com/demoform_te.html

Sag Bescheid, wenn Du noch was brauchst.

Gruss aus TX,

Markus

COMMISSION ADVISORY

BEWARE OF FOREIGN CURRENCY TRADING FRAUDS

Have you been solicited to trade foreign currency contracts (also known as "forex")?
If so, you need to know how to spot foreign currency trading frauds.
The United States Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), the federal agency that regulates commodity futures and options markets in the United States, warns consumers to take special care to protect themselves from the various kinds of frauds being perpetrated in today's financial markets, including those involving so-called "foreign currency trading."

A new federal law, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, makes clear that the CFTC has the jurisdiction and authority to investigate and take legal action to close down a wide assortment of unregulated firms offering or selling foreign currency futures and options contracts to the general public. In addition, the CFTC has jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute foreign currency fraud occurring in its registered firms and their affiliates.

The CFTC has witnessed the increasing numbers and growing complexity of financial investment opportunities in recent years, including a sharp rise in foreign currency trading scams. While much foreign currency trading is legitimate, various forms of foreign currency trading have been touted in recent years to defraud members of the public.

Currency trading scams often attract customers through advertisements in local newspapers, radio promotions or attractive Internet sites. These advertisements may tout high-return, low-risk investment opportunities in foreign currency trading, or even highly-paid currency-trading employment opportunities. The CFTC urges you to be skeptical when promoters of foreign currency trading claim that their services or account management will earn high profits with minimal risks, or that employment as a currency trader will make you wealthy quickly.

Understanding Legitimate Foreign Currency Operations

Generally speaking, foreign currency futures and options contracts may be traded legally on an exchange or board of trade that has been approved by the CFTC.

Even where currency trading does not occur on a Commission-approved exchange or board of trade, the trading can be conducted legally where, generally speaking, one or both parties to the trading is (or is a regulated affiliate of) a bank, insurance company, registered securities broker-dealer, futures commission merchant or other financial institution, or is an individual or entity with a high net worth.

Where forex firms do not fall into the categories of regulated entities outlined above and engage in foreign currency futures and options transactions with or for retail customers who do not have high net worths, the CFTC has jurisdiction over those firms and their transactions.

Warning Signs of Fraud

If you are solicited by a company that claims to trade foreign currencies and asks you to commit funds for those purposes, you should be very careful. Watch for the warning signs listed below, and take the following precautions before placing your funds with any currency trading company.

1. Stay Away From Opportunities That Sound Too Good to Be True

Get-rich-quick schemes, including those involving foreign currency trading, tend to be frauds.

Always remember that there is no such thing as a "free lunch." Be especially cautious if you have acquired a large sum of cash recently and are looking for a safe investment vehicle. In particular, retirees with access to their retirement funds may be attractive targets for fraudulent operators. Getting your money back once it is gone can be difficult or impossible.

2. Avoid Any Company that Predicts or Guarantees Large Profits

Be extremely wary of companies that guarantee profits, or that tout extremely high performance. In many cases, those claims are false.

The following are examples of statements that either are or most likely are fraudulent:

"Whether the market moves up or down, in the currency market you will make a profit."
"Make $1000 per week, every week"
"We are out-performing 90% of domestic investments."
"The main advantage of the forex markets is that there is no bear market."
"We guarantee you will make at least a 30-40% rate of return within two months."
3. Stay Away From Companies That Promise Little or No Financial Risk

Be suspicious of companies that downplay risks or state that written risk disclosure statements are routine formalities imposed by the government.

The currency futures and options markets are volatile and contain substantial risks for unsophisticated customers. The currency futures and options markets are not the place to put any funds that you cannot afford to lose. For example, retirement funds should not be used for currency trading. You can lose most or all of those funds very quickly trading foreign currency futures or options contracts. Therefore, beware of companies that make the following types of statements:

"With a $10,000 deposit, the maximum you can lose is $200 to $250 per day."
"We promise to recover any losses you have."
"Your investment is secure."
4. Don't Trade on Margin Unless You Understand What It Means

Margin trading can make you responsible for losses that greatly exceed the dollar amount you deposited.

Many currency traders ask customers to give them money, which they sometimes refer to as "margin," often sums in the range of $1,000 to $5,000. However, those amounts, which are relatively small in the currency markets, actually control far larger dollar amounts of trading, a fact that often is poorly explained to customers.

Don't trade on margin unless you fully understand what you are doing and are prepared to accept losses that exceed the margin amounts you paid.

5. Question Firms That Claim To Trade in the "Interbank Market"

Be wary of firms that claim that you can or should trade in the "interbank market," or that they will do so on your behalf.

Unregulated, fraudulent currency trading firms often tell retail customers that their funds are traded in the "interbank market," where good prices can be obtained. Firms that trade currencies in the interbank market, however, are most likely to be banks, investment banks and large corporations, since the term "interbank market" refers simply to a loose network of currency transactions negotiated between financial institutions and other large companies.

6. Be Wary of Sending or Transferring Cash on the Internet, By Mail or Otherwise

Be especially alert to the dangers of trading on-line; it is very easy to transfer funds on-line, but often can be impossible to get a refund.

It costs an Internet advertiser just pennies per day to reach a potential audience of millions of persons, and phony currency trading firms have seized upon the Internet as an inexpensive and effective way of reaching a large pool of potential customers.

Many companies offering currency trading on-line are not located within the United States and may not display an address or any other information identifying their nationality on their Web site. Be aware that if you transfer funds to those foreign firms, it may be very difficult or impossible to recover your funds.

7. Currency Scams Often Target Members of Ethnic Minorities

Some currency trading scams target potential customers in ethnic communities, particularly persons in the Russian, Chinese and Indian immigrant communities, through advertisements in ethnic newspapers and television "infomercials."

Sometimes those advertisements offer so-called "job opportunities" for "account executives" to trade foreign currencies. Be aware that "account executives" that are hired might be expected to use their own money for currency trading, as well as to recruit their family and friends to do likewise. What appears to be a promising job opportunity often is another way many of these companies lure customers into parting with their cash.

8. Be Sure You Get the Company's Performance Track Record

Get as much information as possible about the firm's or individual's performance record on behalf of other clients. You should be aware, however, that It may be difficult or impossible to do so, or to verify the information you receive. While firms and individuals are not required to provide this information, you should be wary of any person who is not willing to do so or who provides you with incomplete information. However, keep in mind, even if you do receive a glossy brochure or sophisticated-looking charts, that the information they contain might be false.

9. Don't Deal With Anyone Who Won't Give You Their Background

Plan to do a lot of checking of any information you receive to be sure that the company is and does exactly what it says.

Get the background of the persons running or promoting the company, if possible. Do not rely solely on oral statements or promises from the firm's employees. Ask for all information in written form.

If you cannot satisfy yourself that the persons with whom you are dealing are completely legitimate and above-board, the wisest course of action is to avoid trading foreign currencies through those companies.

10. Warning Signs Of Commodity "Come-Ons"

If you are solicited by a company to purchase commodities, watch for the warning signs listed below:

Avoid any company that predicts or guarantees large profits with little or no financial risk.
Be wary of high-pressure tactics to convince you to send or transfer cash immediately to the firm, via overnight delivery companies, the internet, by mail, or otherwise.
Be skeptical about unsolicited phone calls about investments from offshore salespersons or companies with which you are unfamiliar.
Prior to purchasing:

Contact the CFTC.

Visit the CFTC's forex fraud web page.
Contact the National Futures Association to see whether the company is registered with the CFTC or is a members of the National Futures Association (NFA)?. You can do this easily by calling the NFA (800-621-3570 or 800-676-4NFA) or by checking the NFA's registration and membership information on its website at http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/. While registration may not be required, you might want to confirm the status and disciplinary record of a particular company or salesperson.
Get in touch with other authorities, including your state's securities commissioner (http://www.nasaa.org), Attorney General's consumer protection bureau (http://www.naag.org/), the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org) and the National Futures Association (http://www.nfa.futures.org).

Be sure you get all information about the company and verify that data, if possible. If you can, check the company's materials with someone whose financial advice you trust.

Learn all possible information about fees charged, and the basis for each of these charges.

If in doubt, don't invest. If you can't get solid information about the company, the salesperson, and the investment, you may not want to risk your money.
11. More Information and Contacts

Questions concerning this advisory may be addressed to the CFTC's Office of Public Affairs at (202) 418-5080.
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Three LaFayette Centre
1155 21st Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20581

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act is available in our Law and Regulation page.
(requires an Adobe Acrobat reader, which can be downloaded for free from http://www.adobe.com and numerous other sites on the Internet)
For other consumer advisories concerning possible fraudulent activity in the commodity futures and options industry, click on the Customer Protection page.
Contact the National Fraud Information Center (http://www.fraud.org).
The CFTC's website also offers general information about trading in the commodity futures and options markets. You may wish to visit our Before You Trade page.
To find out whether firms or counterparties with whom you plan to trade are registered or regulated institutions or entities that are outside the CFTC's jurisdiction, you can check the lists of regulated institutions on the following websites. Some institutions outside the CFTC's jurisdiction do not appear on any of these lists or in other readily-available places:

Federal Reserve Board (http://www.federalreserve.gov)
Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (http://www.ffiec.gov)
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (http://www.fdic.gov)
U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (http://www.sec.gov)
The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (http://www.occ.treas.gov)
Office of Thrift Supervision (http://www.ots.treas.gov)
National Credit Union Association (http://www.ncua.gov)
National Association of Securities Dealers Regulation, Inc. (http://www.nasdr.com)
All U.S. Government web sites can be located through links at http://www.firstgov.gov
Your state Attorney General's office and state banking, insurance and securities regulators (which often have their own web sites).

http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf98/opaforexa15.htm

@ Roland

Kann Dein Kollege Markus ggf. einige Beispiele von Brokern nennen, die von US nach UK umgezogen sind ?

Gruss

Na. wollen wir ihn nicht strapazieren, aber hier ist eine Liste von FX Brokern:

http://www.fxstreet.com/nou/brokers/senseframestaula.asp

Jeder Händler weiß, dass es auf internationalen Märkten über Broker oder über Banken gehandelt wird, die einen bestimmten Prozentsatz für die Eröffnung von Handelspositionen, für die Übertragung von Handelspositionen auf den nächsten Tag und für einige Broker sogar für das Abheben von Geldern von einem Konto und zahlen müssen um Geld auf dem Konto zu halten. Wie finde ich einen zuverlässigen Broker? Hat jemand gute admiral markets erfahrungen? Ich habe es hier http://tradersunion.com/de/brokers/forex/view/admiral_markets/ gelesen, es scheint gut zu sein